What the fuck is wrong with you? mastodon.social/@dansup/102391

Why are you pressuring me to block a instance from the 14k people here, when you can do that yourself?

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Give control to the USERS. It's is not up to the fediverse or app developers or even to the admins to decide what they should or should not see. Do you even realize what you're doing?

And by the way I'm NOT supporting Gab. Sure, I may block them instance-wide if something really bad happens like mass spam or harassement, but until then it is *not* my call. Each user can mute entire instances for themselves and by themselves.

Aso yes, Gab is doing really shitty stuff by taking Mastodon's code and using/breaking it even though they have VC funding... But Mastodon is open-source so this will happen again... Remember Hiveway?

@angristan YES!

I like that mastodon has block/whatever controls, it's great! But LET ME CHOOSE who to block. I have tried a few instances that arbitrarily block others, and it's frustrating not seeing comments from folks on other instances that aren't aware I can't see and therefore reply. Through no fault of either myself nor them.

Stop treating users like fragile imbeciles.

There are capable adults here, that you know, exist in the real world and do just fine. We'll be fine here.

@rotawerx
+1

Theres a place for people who barely know how to use a smartphone. A place for people who need to be coddled and spoon-fed their tech. Where such people are outright necessary to keep user counts up.

And it's called Twitter. Twitter is trash.
@angristan

@r000t @angristan @rotawerx
Perhaps there is a way to have a "pinned issues" or "community topics" tab, where there is a set of suggestions for why you might want to ban certain instances.

@fluffy
There's no reason for anybody to pre-emptively ban an instance. The only exceptions (instance posts CP/other strict liability content) also happen to be the only appropriate use cases for instance wide blocking.

People should block instances when they find a reason to do so. If someone needs an instance that attempts to shield them from all negativity, I'm sure there are a few, but thats niche
@angristan @rotawerx

@fluffy @angristan @rotawerx
More to the point, if someone needs to be pre-emptively shielded from all negativity, they may wish to put the computer away.

Nick Jr., Noggin, and Sprout are still broadcasting for their convenience.

@r000t @fluffy @angristan @rotawerx

"More to the point, if someone needs to be pre-emptively shielded from all negativity, they may wish to put the computer away."

"Negativity?"

Is that what you call Fascism and Nazism?

Why the euphemism?

Are you hiding what you are really saying, even from yourself?

@hhardy01 @rotawerx
It is my opinion as well as the opinion of a great number of others that the hysteria surrounding what is purported to be fascism and nazism is tedious and annoying.

One should assume that other members of the community are arguing in good faith. Athough I don't myself agree with their perspectives, I find those who are called nazis and fascist to be very far from the raving lunatics they are alleged to be.

Remember that in the end we are all people, and that hate gets us nowhere.

@hhardy01 @fluffy @angristan @rotawerx
Nope.

I wasn’t hiding anything, I meant what I said. Some people don’t want anything with a negative tone, period, about anything, and I don’t think those people should be on the Internet. It’s not good for them.

You, on the other hand, made the jump you accused me of. Oops.

@hhardy01 @rotawerx The user should be the one who decides which information he is granted.

For example, I have blocked gab, even though my instance allows it. It’s quite simple to do, and there is an analogue on twitter (blocklists).

Once you allow someone to decide for you want is the boogie man du jour be it commie in the cold war or nazi today, you put yourself in a disadvantaged position.

@[email protected]@[email protected] hextremist.com

There is no moral equivalence between Fascism and anti-Fascism. None.

@fluffy @angristan @rotawerx
The big solution is to have the list of instance bans be visible, preferably to the public (before account sign-up). In my perfect world, there’d be a matching JSON-LD schema so you can poll instances for their instance bans. Same with silences.

I’d also like to see *counts* (not lists, obvious reason) of user silences/blocks per instance.

The whole point is, Joe Blow compares instances, that’s something to compare.

@fluffy @angristan @rotawerx
And to be clear, it should be a bullet point list of domains. No “reason” or a place for some manifesto about why a given instance is such a bad place. Just a list.

Standard use case: “I mostly talk to people on instance x, y, and z. Let me make sure that won’t be a problem here before I make a new account.”

This is the same reason we should prefer silences to blocks, where feasible.

@rotawerx
Exactly this.

The advantage in fediverse is that people can choose what instance fits them. Users who want to be treated like fragile imbeciles will migrate to instances that make the decisions for them, such as Twitter and Facebook. And users who want to make decisions for themselves will stay with @angristan for example.

Pressuring someone else to follow your own arbitrary moral code is not ok in any way @dansup "Who's not with us is against us" is always bad.

@rotawerx
@a I suspect in 5 years even @Gargron will look back and be ashamed of when he tried to "shut out" @gab from the Fediverse. It will look as ridiculous as gmail trying to shut out @protonmail lol!
@angristan

@angristan Surprise, hardcore Mastodonians don't want openness and decentralization, but conformity and control!

@dwaltiz
Well they will have to crawl back to mama because Gabbers are in the fediverse to stay! @a
@angristan

@Bitz @angristan Ok, now tell your bosses to actually let it communicate with other nodes properly.

@angristan so, the real issue here is that Mastodon's author chose the open source license which permits forks and now his own poor and short-sighted decision haunts him

@testodon @angristan He chose a free software license. Those who support free software (open source is corporate propaganda) not only allow but specifically encourage others to fork their code.

This openness is the spirit of FOSS. Do you oppose it?

@fluffy @angristan my point was that when someone chooses the license that "specifically encourage others to fork their code" then they should be emotionally and mentally ready to be forked by people they don't like and/or by people who'd mess up their original code in that fork

@testodon @angristan

It's more likely he simply wanted to piggyback on the successful branding of GNU.

@testodon @angristan arguing that the license is bad because someone uses it to shitpost on the internet is kinda like arguing solar power is bad because some asshole in a desert in Texas uses it to shitpost from his solar powered shed.

@rune my argument was not about the license itself. Eugene had published Mastodon under the license that does not prohibit forking, then called "some asshole in a desert" (using your analogy) a parasite for forking his software. Also he stated that "App devs and server admins will block their domains" as if Mastodon was a centralized software and he has authority over those devs and admins.

@testodon Heh, fair point.

On my first read I definitely misconstrued "poor and short-sighted decision" to be your assessment when it really is more an observation of what Eugen must have felt.

There's a lot of disagreement going on in the fediverse it seems. Some people believing in unconditional free use of software as the license decrees and others less so.

@angristan I can only agree with that. For this very reason I have recently started to run my own instance.

@angristan are they, though? Thats the whole point of open source. Saying people are 'stealing' is doing it wrong.

@angristan ok, but i think your opinion of 'shitty' couldnt be more wrong.

@angristan
>Can you please block the instance that only federates with hacks?
How about they stop panicking over absolutely nothing. All I could get from Gab are two users. Other than that, federation seems to be broken on purpose.

@maxmustermann
Seems like federation is working fine now
Both milo yiannopoulous and alex jones seem to federate fine, which are the only users I know on gab due to their notorious twitter bans
@angristan

@intuxikated @angristan
I know a few more, but they are not appearing. I only got the one I wantend right after the migration, because some fucked with Gab on the inside.

@maxmustermann
Patience @gab will soon be federating smoothly. Remember they have the most users and most active user base. So many logged in even @a and his team are still porting over data
@angristan @intuxikated

@Bitz @intuxikated @angristan @a @maxmustermann If Gab had the most active user base they wouldn't have disabled all standard Mastodon metrics to conceal this fact.

@angristan Look, buddy. This isn't a small problem like drawn child pornography. This is GAB. They're NATZIS

@ArthurFrayn @angristan

Actually, we're Not-Cees, as in "Not Communists."

Well, except for the ones that actually are communists. I'm sure there are a few but they tend to find Twatter and Fakebook to be safe harbors that love them.

@edgewerk @angristan I have it on good authority that a bunch of the Mastodon homos block real instances run by real communists too. If there's one thing everyone should be able to agree on, it's that homosexuality should be outlawed #Juche

@ArthurFrayn @angristan

I don't care who people bone. I don't think my government should either. It's literally a non-issue as long as it's between two legal, consenting adults--even albino dwarfs.

@angristan @ArthurFrayn @edgewerk >when a communist cant even communist righ because he says its 'stealing'

@angristan en ce moment les gens voudraient que les autres changent leur manière de faire pour leur gueule et qu'ils restent passifs...Chacun gère ses complexes merde

@angristan I do agree with you, but if not up to admins at all then whats the point of having disributed instances in your mind?

@freemo @angristan a server isn't just a glorified blocklist, although indeed you can choose yours depending on what it blocks

@espectalll @freemo right, an instance is way more than just a blacklist. Although if it is this is that important for you, there are plenty of choices

@angristan

Have you blocked any instances?

But just not gab?

Or have you not blocked any instances globally at all?

@espectalll @freemo

@freemo @angristan
- to spread the costs of hosting
- to make the network more resistant to misbehaving admins
- to avoid a single point of failure
- to let you chose where your data is stored
- to let you play around with modified versions of the server software while still being part of the same network

...and probably more.

@Wolf480pl
All of those things could be designed in more effective and automated ways if the shared blocklist aspect wasnt central anymore.

@angristan

@freemo @angristan
hm... what do you have in mind? something like OpenPGP SKS keyservers?

@Wolf480pl
Well things like being able to migrate freely between servers and take ytour followers and toots with you.The act of becoming federated and relays, te very need to even know a persons home server, all tese things could be addressed if we no longer cared about admins running things manually and choosing who to include

@angristan

@Wolf480pl
BTW #QOTO is a no-block instance. So I agree with the merit here but I also recognise as a whole people pick servers due to their blocking policies or lack thereof.

@angristan

@freemo @angristan
Now that I think of it, it is fine if _some_ servers do heavy instance-wide blocking. Even though I don't agree with that, I can tolerate them, and won't call their admins "bad person" as long as they can tolerate existence of neutral-carrier-like instances, and don't call those instances' admins "bad person".

But there are still be plenty of other reasons to have multiple servers and to pick one over another. They may be not so prominent in the current climate, but they're there and still having effect, even if we don't notice it.

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