Follow

is harmful to e-mail ecosystem; its antispam blocking policy matches too many valid messages as spam.

It blocked LastPass email leak warning email, because it contained "a link" to a leaked site.

It blocked an e-mail from goverment agency addressed directly to me.

It discriminates all non-gmail servers, and it's pretty much impossible to own a private SMTP server these days, because GMail will classify everything as spam.

It's not how e-mail should work.

Consider dropping GMail.

@antekone it also blocks sometimes legit emails from Debian without any reason given. not nice :(

@tapaniraja @antekone @Tutanota @protonmail

I don't have any experience with Tutanota, but unless you're using Protonmail for hosting with a custom domain, I strongly recommend against it.

Their encryption setup means that they can't forward emails to another address, making it extremely difficult to leave.

I'd recommend going with a more traditional email or mail hosting provider like Posteo, Fairmail, of Migadu

@th4lia @tapaniraja @antekone Hi there! Although automatic forwarding is indeed not possible with ProtonMail at the moment, paid users can use the Import-Export app to easily export their entire mailbox in the event of a migration: protonmail.com/support/knowled

@protonmail @tapaniraja @antekone Import and export are a non-issue for anyone with a decent mail archiving workflow. The problem is that there is no easy way of watching for mail going into the old account without maintained a payed account or staying signed in to the browser or app.

This makes it *really* difficult to switch providers

@antekone The links the send in the reject messages also point to "help" pages that are not helpful and not telling me what they want to see, e.g. support.google.com/mail/?p=IPv doesn't mention IPv6 at all...

@cm @antekone Speaking of GMail's IPv6 support: even with perfectly configured IPv6 FCrDNS, DMARC, SPF, DKIM, ADSP, etc., Google keeps randomly rejecting e-mail sent using IPv6. Only option: force all outbound e-mail aimed at Google to be sent to a hard-coded IPv4 GMail inbound relay, overriding their DNS. Very clean & convenient... 😕

@antekone I agree with you on most points but "pretty much impossible" does not fully match my experience. I manage my own SMTP server and I interact with Gmail people.

@antekone I completely agree! Consider dropping GMail in favor of some smaller provider (not Yahoo or the likes) - there are many remaining and doing a great job in keeping the Internet as open as they can.

@antekone Google provides the dominant service in a number of areas now and shows in all of those areas that if you dominate the market you don't need to provide good service. In many cases the main feature they provide over the competition is unlimited space.

@antekone
Drop Gmail. Only use for the account here is for login authentication on Google -powned essential infrastructure. The ASB Bank, for example, now insists on a Google account for NFC payments.

@antekone is go so far as to say that Gmail isn’t Internet email, and I suspect that their system isn’t even SMTP standards compliant (though I haven’t had a chance to prove that yet).

It’s like any myriad of old proprietary email systems (AOL, Compuserve, etc.), and you’re right, it’s making its users more and more undeliverable.

@antekone Well, I turned that horse around: my mail server auto-responds to mails from Gmail, telling the sender that I won't (and that they should get themselves a "real mail provider" that respects the privacy of their correspondents).

@antekone outlook.com has similar issues. It blocks whole IP ranges (e.g. the whole Hetzner IP space) and drops or bounces mails from there (sometimes even silenty).

@antekone Goog seems to put emails from SDF accts in to spam now.

This problem is bigger then most realize. Tons of companies now outsource their email to goog (or outlook) because they get tired of fighting to say off blacklists. Just because it isn't "@gmail.com" doesn't mean it isn't powered by Gmail. You can get yourdoamin.com powered by gmail.
Goog & Outlook.com basically run a protection racket today. Hire them for your email hosting or risk having your domain labeled as spam. 😡

@antekone this happened to me when using Mailbox.org with custom domain. My mails were considered by spam by Gmail recipients.

I managed to solve this with proper SFP and DKIM configuration.

@antekone I eventually want to move to a different mail provider, maybe s9mething like mail.com which is end to end encrypted...

@antekone it's increasingly seeing more adoption among corporates. For commoners, there's nothing better than free
:blobugh:

@antekone

This seems a bit hyperbolic. Gmail isn't the reason that self-hosted email servers are increasingly difficult to manage. Spammers and the necessary security responses to them are the reason why most people can't keep up.

@antekone Dropped my YouTube Premium / Google Play All Access account today because of YouTube cosying up to the far right. Already dropped Gmail, Google Calendar, Google Contacts, Google Docs.
@meta @antekone Very nice! I'm still clinging to Google Docs because there's nothing quite like it yet and Google Calendar for historical reasons, but leaving paid services is way more impressive overall.

@antekone You're so right,delete that shit.I deleted my Google account years ago and haven't missed it a single time.There are so many good,privacy-respecting and free email providers.If you need one,here are the best: tutanota.com , dismail.de and disroot.org

@antekone The Google argument would be: "if everyone just used Gmail, this wouldn't be a problem."
I'm with you on this, but a couple of thoughts: 1) is this also a problem with G Suite email? and 2) What are the best alternatives to Gmail in your opinion and based on what criteria?

@antekone All links are changed to tracked ones as well.

@antekone anti spam measures can be discriminating, but gmail is a whole new level💁

@antekone and don't drop Gmail for an Outlook/Exchange Online system: they do exactly the same thing. Any SMTP server that is not run by an ISP or a giant mail hosting company is flagged as spam by default.

This is blatant anti-competitive behaviour, but they will claim it is for our own good.

The reality is that they want to control your data and lock you into the privacy nightmare that their ecosystems are.

It is AOL/CompuServe all over again, only much, much worse.

@kicou

We will rebuild an alternative radicaly different new cyberspace architecture.

There is nothing to fix into that one.

It's fucked up.

@antekone

@antekone Well to be fair, if you're a small sender you're completely under the radar of any provider and most of them will play well with you with basic settings (I think Microsoft is the only one which will not), the issues are more with large providers that have no care for what they do, some of them are even more or less open-relays and some of them quite behave like spammers (too much retries after a fail, servers being easily down, …).

@antekone
Fuck off #google !

On my side I've been using my own private smtp server for around 20 years now ... And will always !

I've run my own private mailserver for some 15 years, and mails I send to GMail always arrive knock on wood.

But you're completely right: drop GMail (and all other Google services, for that matter).

@antekone fwiw, Microsoft's mail (e.g. outlook.com) is even worse -- it was silently dropping my messages (not even filing them as spam) for several years before I thought to do a "delivery status notification" on one of them, and finally got an error message back.

This caused me to believe that a very dear friend was intentionally ignoring me, which could have resulted in us losing contact if I hadn't investigated further.

It even spams messages from GMail, though at least it doesn't silently delete them.

cc @resist1984

@antekone Anecdotally, I didn't have trouble sending from my personal SMTP server to GMail after I set up a few basic things (SPF, DMARC, etc). hotmail refused all my email but fixed it when I contacted them. It's annoying, but for my little one-person email server it hasn't been a real problem.

@antekone about this -

“it's pretty much impossible to own a private SMTP server these days”

this is very sadly true. but i think it’s hardly just gmail fault, or dropping gmail would help it at all. the internet needs more decentralized but sadly the world is moving in a centralized and denser shape.

@antekone to add pain to serious insult the Microsoft run services are even worse. From Danmark at least outlook.com insists on whitelising ips of senders. That was the final straw that made me give up on running my own mail server...

@antekone I've never have a problem being blocked by gmail.

IME, gmail let's 90% of spam right through - even it's a straight up spoof from a telnet session.

@antekone It's not impossible to run your own email server. I personally use authsmtp.com/ for sending mail, which works fine. And I've also found that once you setup dkim and SPF, Gmail doesn't block any of my big name VPS providers. I haven't done a lot of testing with that. But I've yet to see it not work.

pretty much impossible to own a private SMTP server these days, because GMail will classify everything as spam


Bullshit.

@antekone @kubikpixel So does and did Hotmail/Outlook, Yahoo and some others of the big players. Kinda forcing you to use their services, in case you wanna make sure your mails will get delivered. Tough fight sometimes, in case you are using your own server and great solutions like #mailcow #yunohost #mailinabox or something alike.

I totally understand blocking private IPs from your local ISP. But this is just shady business.

@stardenver @antekone @kubikpixel It can be a nuisance, but (at least for) for Microsoft and Google, getting your server recognised as non-spam is not too hard. Annoying but just jump through their hoops.

@antekone and while you are at it: Microsoft's mail services aren't any better. As an admin for a mail server I had to get in contact with them so many times, and you always have to get past the bot somehow…

@antekone Owning a private SMTP server might actually be the best thing to do. The more people doing so, the more people using e-mail providers with insane "antispam" policies will be those who miss important mails, leading to (a) more complaints to those providers, or (b) people dropping those providers.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon

The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!