#GMail is harmful to e-mail ecosystem; its antispam blocking policy matches too many valid messages as spam.
It blocked LastPass email leak warning email, because it contained "a link" to a leaked site.
It blocked an e-mail from goverment agency addressed directly to me.
It discriminates all non-gmail servers, and it's pretty much impossible to own a private SMTP server these days, because GMail will classify everything as spam.
It's not how e-mail should work.
Consider dropping GMail.
@antekone Another horrible related thing that's starting to happen a lot is that many email sysadmins are getting lazy when it comes to spam set up and simply rejecting all incoming messages from any mail servers that aren't google, ms etc which helps to cement their monopoly even more 😞
@lschuermann @antekone I've been running my own mail server for about 15yr now, and I'm finding that sending to G,MS etc servers is actually working very well nowadays, but you do have to ensure you're config is rock solid including rDNS, IPv6, SPF, DKIM and DMARC. Use a tool like mxtoolbox.com to ensure your server's IP is not blacklisted anywhere, and a tool such as mail-tester.com to analyse and report on the email your server sends.
@aran @antekone Yeah, I'm running mine for a few years now and with the big providers (which *know* how to do Email correctly but sometimes deliberately decide to fuck things up) I never had an issue. Its medium to large company's sysadmins which apparently don't know that services other than their domain and the big webmail providers exist. Even worse, I've got my MX on a subdomain (with is.currently.online, that's a must :D).
@aran @antekone @lschuermann you must be using a static IP, which makes a huge difference. Of course by bending over backwards to send to #MACFANG corps, you end up supporting them. I will not, so I run my mail server on a dynamic IP and refuse to email MS/Gmail/Yahoo recipients. I tell them get an ESP that works if they want mail from me.
@lschuermann @antekone @aran The only way that I'm willing to email a #MACFANG user is by old fashioned #FAX. If they have a fax#, then I can send a fax to them without touching their freedom-hostile tech giant, in which case their FAX provider sends a digital image of my msg to the MS/Google/Yahoo server.
@PeterSanchez @aran @lschuermann @antekone MS has always been more finicky. Gmail pretty much works, even without SPF, DKIM or DMARC (all optional), despite urban legends to the contrary. MS used to have a lot of problems - even deploying servers themselves with broken rDNS etc. However worst problems I've encountered have usually been with techies running their own misconfigured mailservers - it's hard, documentation is lacking, and misinformation is everywhere (eg. "SPF is required").
In my case, I find that signing my emails (which is by default) seems to trigger outlook online and on desktop. Sometimes I just don't sign a message when I know it's going to a MS / outlook using recipient.
I don't have any experience with Tutanota, but unless you're using Protonmail for hosting with a custom domain, I strongly recommend against it.
Their encryption setup means that they can't forward emails to another address, making it extremely difficult to leave.
I'd recommend going with a more traditional email or mail hosting provider like Posteo, Fairmail, of Migadu
@th4lia @tapaniraja @antekone Hi there! Although automatic forwarding is indeed not possible with ProtonMail at the moment, paid users can use the Import-Export app to easily export their entire mailbox in the event of a migration: https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/how-to-export-emails-from-your-protonmail-account/
@protonmail @tapaniraja @antekone Import and export are a non-issue for anyone with a decent mail archiving workflow. The problem is that there is no easy way of watching for mail going into the old account without maintained a payed account or staying signed in to the browser or app.
This makes it *really* difficult to switch providers
@cm @antekone Speaking of GMail's IPv6 support: even with perfectly configured IPv6 FCrDNS, DMARC, SPF, DKIM, ADSP, etc., Google keeps randomly rejecting e-mail sent using IPv6. Only option: force all outbound e-mail aimed at Google to be sent to a hard-coded IPv4 GMail inbound relay, overriding their DNS. Very clean & convenient... 😕
@antekone The problem with the email service provider market is that people choose their one provider for life. It takes too much time to change hundreds of online (and offline) accounts that have the old address. Most people don’t have a record of who has their email address so they don’t even know who and what needs their new address. This protocol-level vendor lock-in allows for unchallanged abusive policies and hurts competition.
@antekone I agree with you on most points but "pretty much impossible" does not fully match my experience. I manage my own SMTP server and I interact with Gmail people.
@antekone I completely agree! Consider dropping GMail in favor of some smaller provider (not Yahoo or the likes) - there are many remaining and doing a great job in keeping the Internet as open as they can.
@antekone Google provides the dominant service in a number of areas now and shows in all of those areas that if you dominate the market you don't need to provide good service. In many cases the main feature they provide over the competition is unlimited space.
Drop Gmail. Only use for the account here is for login authentication on Google -powned essential infrastructure. The ASB Bank, for example, now insists on a Google account for NFC payments.
@antekone is go so far as to say that Gmail isn’t Internet email, and I suspect that their system isn’t even SMTP standards compliant (though I haven’t had a chance to prove that yet).
It’s like any myriad of old proprietary email systems (AOL, Compuserve, etc.), and you’re right, it’s making its users more and more undeliverable.
@antekone Well, I turned that horse around: my mail server auto-responds to mails from Gmail, telling the sender that I won't (and that they should get themselves a "real mail provider" that respects the privacy of their correspondents).
@antekone outlook.com has similar issues. It blocks whole IP ranges (e.g. the whole Hetzner IP space) and drops or bounces mails from there (sometimes even silenty).
@antekone Goog seems to put emails from SDF accts in to spam now.
This problem is bigger then most realize. Tons of companies now outsource their email to goog (or outlook) because they get tired of fighting to say off blacklists. Just because it isn't "@gmail.com" doesn't mean it isn't powered by Gmail. You can get yourdoamin.com powered by gmail.
Goog & Outlook.com basically run a protection racket today. Hire them for your email hosting or risk having your domain labeled as spam. 😡
@antekone this happened to me when using Mailbox.org with custom domain. My mails were considered by spam by Gmail recipients.
I managed to solve this with proper SFP and DKIM configuration.
@antekone I eventually want to move to a different mail provider, maybe s9mething like mail.com which is end to end encrypted...
@antekone it's increasingly seeing more adoption among corporates. For commoners, there's nothing better than free
This seems a bit hyperbolic. Gmail isn't the reason that self-hosted email servers are increasingly difficult to manage. Spammers and the necessary security responses to them are the reason why most people can't keep up.
@antekone The Google argument would be: "if everyone just used Gmail, this wouldn't be a problem."
I'm with you on this, but a couple of thoughts: 1) is this also a problem with G Suite email? and 2) What are the best alternatives to Gmail in your opinion and based on what criteria?
@antekone and don't drop Gmail for an Outlook/Exchange Online system: they do exactly the same thing. Any SMTP server that is not run by an ISP or a giant mail hosting company is flagged as spam by default.
This is blatant anti-competitive behaviour, but they will claim it is for our own good.
The reality is that they want to control your data and lock you into the privacy nightmare that their ecosystems are.
It is AOL/CompuServe all over again, only much, much worse.
@antekone fwiw, Microsoft's mail (e.g. outlook.com) is even worse -- it was silently dropping my messages (not even filing them as spam) for several years before I thought to do a "delivery status notification" on one of them, and finally got an error message back.
This caused me to believe that a very dear friend was intentionally ignoring me, which could have resulted in us losing contact if I hadn't investigated further.
It even spams messages from GMail, though at least it doesn't silently delete them.
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