I'm absolutely pro-vax (on voluntary basis), as is everyone in this conversation. But when the very inventor of the mRNA gene therapy tells you that his concerns about the experimental COVID vaccines were straight-up ignored by the FDA, and now they seem to be coming true, then really, everyone needs to stop and do a reality check. It's not the scientific method to just blurt out "IT'S SAFE" whenever challenged during a mass trial of a novel medical intervention.

youtube.com/watch?v=Du2wm5nhTX

@raucao
In the video was around 30 seconds where the inventor of mRNA said something medically relevant. He (also) said that the FDA said it was *insufficient* data/evidence. That's entirely different from ignored.
Using "special engineered" as an accusation. Everything wrt gene therapy is special engineering.

Steve Kirsch with an anecdotal story about his carpenter. Really?
Other anecdotal stories were *censored* according to them.

It's filled with framing techniques; I have a problem w/that

@raucao
That doesn't mean that I think it's 100% safe. It is not.
There is no vaccine that is, but the risk with the COVID-19 vaccines is greater then with f.e. the polio vaccine.
That's a logical consequence of it being novel and indeed also that some of them are of a new type (mRNA). Because of the world-wide impact, maybe a bit more risk is taken.

COVID-19 symptoms were often downplayed, but when Steve's carpenter story isn't the headline everywhere for a month, it's censorship? 🙄

@raucao
And Steve also came up with another anecdotal story, of which I'm *extremely* suspicious:
Since when are the COVID-19 vaccines cleared for pregnant women? They fall in the category of immuno compromised, so they usually don't get vaccinated at all. That's why the rest should get vaccinated (in general), to also protect them.
Maybe for polio, available for many decades, that has since changed (I don't know), but at this stage I find it extremely unlikely for COVID-19 vaccines.

@FreePietje It has now been established that S1 doesn't just circulate freely and is a toxin, which was not intended at all, but that it collects specifically in the uterus and also crosses the barrier into the brain. Hence, future reproductive health is also threatened. They did use the new vaccines on pregnant women and the miscarriage numbers are alarming if correct. You seem to think this is about a couple of anecdotes and not about medical reports and studies as well.

@FreePietje Also, you seem to think it's about vax or not, which is also missing the whole point. It's about risk/benefit of experimental vax for everyone vs known, safe treatments first, then well-researched vaccines later.

@raucao
No, I don't.
I want to see evidence. Point me to clinical trials* proving 'PointXYZ' and I'll happily adjust my current opinion/position.

Anecdotal stories are the opposite of that. For me it has similar value as "Someone on Facebook said ..." at which point I'll most likely just burst out laughing.

*) Dr. Malone mentioned them repeatedly; why didn't he point to them to *prove* this or that point?

@FreePietje @raucao

I'd like to see documentation also @raucao

@FreePietje , I saw a lot of anecdotal stories about myocarditis on birdsite and now the CDC is looking into it. That certainly doesn't mean anything will come of most anecdotal reports on social media but I saw the stories about myocarditis and blood clots on birdsite months before an official health organization acknowledged that it should be investigated.

cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clin

@lizard @raucao
I'm quite suspicious of ant-social media (x0f.org/@FreePietje/1064199919) in general.
But even anecdotal 'stories' can be a (fine) reason to look further into it. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Based on anecdotal stories, a *clinical trial* was started wrt the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19 treatments. And the result showed there was no scientific evidence that it had a(ny) positive effect. That too is good to know.

@FreePietje @raucao

Your post about "ant-social media" is well taken. The only goal of these platforms is keep our eyeballs glued by any means necessary.

What's even worse is the fact that I have no expectation that I can know the truth about many topics these days. The establishment has an agenda which is often not in my best interest and the other side of the argument may be misinformed or nefarious.

Follow

vaccines 

@lizard speaking of which, I posted the video which started this thread in a private facebook group to discuss with some friends, and got automatically "fact checked," including a claim that the spike protein isn't toxic 😂 @FreePietje @raucao

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Mastodon

The social network of the future: No ads, no corporate surveillance, ethical design, and decentralization! Own your data with Mastodon!