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Gender question: how would you call a cis person who isn't cisnormative/doesn't relate to their gender's roles?

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@espectalll don't think it has a name (other than people calling them "weird", ew)

@daelvn I think we need one, since I already know of people who fit there and we should avoid making "cisgender" and "cisnormative" equivalent

@espectalll I didn't get the question, lol.
wasn't "cisgender" a term for those having their gender in agreement with biological sex?

@espectalll gender roles are too general to like follow all of them, dunno.

@Pervertor yeah, but you know, let's say "more or less/approximately fits", you can think of someone who doesn't fit as e.g. a femboy or a tomboy

@espectalll I think gender nonconforming is a usual term, sometimes abbreviated to GNC.

@Dee so... non conforming cis?

That's an ugly term

@espectalll or just gender nonconforming. It technically doesn't imply anything about whether one is trans or not, just that one doens't conform to the typical gender roles for one's gender.

But yes, it does sound a bit dry.

@espectalll @Dee actually I'd like if you stopped looking for an opportunity to tag people and just accepted their individuality. There's a universe of personal traits behind sexes and genders, universe of opportunities to gain them. I don't really know who the hell follows all these gender role things, maybe really normal normies.

@Pervertor @espectalll That's fair, but I do think labels help people better understand themselves, and better communicate their understanding of themselves to others. Imposing labels upon people isn't a good thing, but labels themselves are a useful communication tool.

@Dee @espectalll Kinda that's what I just was writing in my next toot, lmao.

@espectalll let's call those "FREE PEOPLE", "FREEMINDS" Or even "Humans".

@Pervertor ...we already do, it's more about being able to define such people and understanding oneself and each other properly

@espectalll I don't like an idea of being tagged, cuz that simplifies the overall perception of people and dehumanises them a lot. IMHO, the more tags you make in your head, the sooner will you perceive other people as a bunch of tags, not as a sentient being. And that may easily entail dehumanisation. Try to treat people as individuals not as another|tagged|random|dude you can make a prejudiced opinion of just by these tags.

@Pervertor It's intended the other way around, to make the complexity of human beings more manageable and understandable. I haven't experienced any problem with using more tags in my head, it doesn't oversimplify how people are, because it's actually a way for me to understand that complexity more easily and I know it doesn't all come down to that.

@Pervertor like, how do I otherwise acknowledge or explain what being genderfluid is? Until I knew about the label and understood it, I literally had no way to understand and accept myself.

@espectalll and I have and it was awful. I've been treated like a "right" once, just because I was memeing about the left. You see how simple it is, if you are not "left", you are "right" automatically.
And honestly, I'm not "right", just still no good memes about those very rights.

@Pervertor everyone who is a bit above regular politics gets the same shit - that's not because labels exist, but because actually people want to know the LEAST of them and extremely simplify how the world is (good and evil, left or right, so on)

@espectalll Just know my opinion, Francisco, if I see someone with a bunch of tags in the bio and nothing about their interests, life, passions and goals, I get some fucking cringe. Labels and tags are not who people are, they are sentient lifeforms that can make any kind of decisions. People may conform to their gender roles, they may also not. It's something you choose and you may do it in various contexts. Now, genderfluids, can they really choose what they feel about their gender?

@Pervertor > nothing about their interests, life, passions and goals

that's also based on labels, so what do you do?

> Labels and tags are not who people are

No, but they're the best thing we have to communicate that directly and in a concise manner

> People may conform to their gender roles, they may also not. It's something you choose and you may do it in various contexts.

that's why I want terms to properly clear that up, so people don't mix up ideas and think e.g. cis are all

@espectalll
I had written a 2000 char long message, but that turned out to be completely vague mess.
In short, conforming to genders is fucking boring, just do what you want and don't bother me with these gender-related tags, please. I can't communicate with people about their genitals, it's an unproductive topic for communication. Like wtf.
I also lost 2 hours of my time on this bull, lol.
I'm supposed to be learning stuff.

If you want my opinion, I don't think they need a tag.

@Pervertor I mean, thinking it's (merely) about genitals is also confusing things... it's more like, how one feels about themselves and want to express themselves. As a transgender person I absolutely think these tags are needed, but I'm sad to say you won't be able to relate.

@espectalll okay, just look, i'm a way higher than y'all. I just don't think we need genders in the first place. That's why I don't understand what the hell happens to all those nb dudes who can't choose one. In my world genders don't exist.
I propose to just not judge people based on their sex. Never talk about what their interests or behaviour should be or what they should wear. This is my creed.This way I'll have more options to choose a gf from, okay? Sexes are meant for sex, lmao.

@Pervertor well, you're not the only one who thinks like that, there's quite a lot of people like here as well, mostly left-wing. But there's people like me who have strong feelings towards our gender identity, and that actually affects to how we deal with everyday stuff. This actually has a big influence in how I think, behave, want, like, feel, so on - and mind you, it's not because gender roles (even if my traits match these).

And like, it's not judging people for their sex.

@Pervertor So like, just being able to say I'm a girl when I feel as one, or whatever I feel like, is a massive thing for me. As in, having been able to do that has been one of the most life-changing things I had. Sure, you may not want me to put it in my profile as you find it cringey... but it really makes me happy, and it works! I guess it's pretty dumb, but what can I do, I'm just dumb x3

@espectalll I feel it too, but what does it have to do with my interests? Nothing.

@Pervertor ...what do you even mean with that? What do YOUR interests have to do with MY identity?

@espectalll Let's just say, there are little situations I feel it. And what does influence me is MOTIVATION. I think, everyone should have MOTIVATION and PURSUE DREAMS, not just manly masculine men.

@Pervertor well yeah, that's good, do as you find fitting then! You are the one who has to say what you are or not, don't let anyone else tag you like they have any right to

@espectalll the problem is MOTIVATION and PURSUING DREAMS is considered masculine. :coolcat: :coolcat: :coolcat: :coolcat: :coolcat:

@Pervertor those are so called gender roles, and yeah, that's shit :blobcatsip:

@Pervertor easy, what do you feel attached to? Nothing? Congratulations, you're agender! Feel fine being a guy? Well, just stay as that! Or maybe there's something else?

@espectalll I'm just fine being alive and moving towards becoming a __hackerman__.

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