would say maybe just a decade than an entire generation, and I suspect modern Millenials *do* still want to party and get high but realise the risks often outweigh the benefits (especially getting shamed on social media and/or busted by authorities as much as health concerns..). It does mean Millenials are less distracted and more likely to take action about social issues they do not like (I do accept that this can go "both ways")


The trouble with trying to have these discussions are that we're scrying for patterns in a whole world of social noise. Also, all models are wrong, but some models are useful. The model of distinct "generations" is wrong. Keegan's model is wrong. Chapman's model is wrong, and he reminds his readers of this in his own writing about it. These models can be useful as scrying tools but not in the deterministic 'if this then that' way of arithmetic or basic physics or chemistry.
@vfrmedia @Wolf480pl

@vfrmedia every generation will have a handful of puritans and hedonists, but most will fall somewhere in between.This is relevant to the discussion of generations and meaningness when we ask *why* people get high. For a Gen Xer like me, getting wasted seemed like a sensible response to a world that felt meaningless and that I felt powerless to change. Later, when I gave up alcohol and switched to #entheogens, getting high became about changing the world by changing myself.

This points to something I think Chapman gets wrong. The countercultures he describes did exist, but a lot of what people think of when you say "counterculture" (eg psychedelia) was actually the early stirrings of the subcultural mode. Punk spawned from the British counterculture at about the same time, as metal started to gentrify (it's now thoroughly middle class) and working class metallers started to break away and make their own things. Punk got to the US much later.

@vfrmedia I've noticed that millenials, while still enjoying a good party, don't set out to destroy themselves the way we did. I reckon that's because they intuitively realize that their generation won't be numerically dominated by the one before as ours was, and they're going to have much more power to shape their world. One positive of social media is that I think it engenders that sense of agency. Mind you, suicide is still shockingly high among younger people, so ...


according to my younger friends many don't booze or take drugs simply because they don't like feeling rough/unwell on the comedowns, also nearly every social activity as well as many jobs require a car to get to and from them and DUI laws in the UK are now enforced a lot stronger than ever before (including checking for sleep deprivation/residual drugs in blood in drivers on Monday mornings)


@vfrmedia hmm. DUI checks. Something Boomers didn't have to deal with and Gen Xers didn't care about. But even the fact that they see it as a *choice* seems generational to me. Maybe Aotearoa in the 90s was a bit like Ireland, Scotland, or the North of England, but when I was a teenager it was seen as extremely weird not to want to get as blasted as possible.


@strypey @vfrmedia @[email protected]
A true story.

Three mates + me on holiday in Donegal, Ireland. We get involved in a pub quiz, in a pub, in the middle of nowhere. About 5 miles to next village & our campsite.

A great time was had by all, and *lots* of beer was drunk. Afterwards, we were standing outside discussing walking to the campsite. One local intervenes and says "just drive". "What about the Gardaí?" says me. "Don't worry, they won't bother you." says the local.


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@strypey @vfrmedia @[email protected]


"How do you know that?" Says me, in response. The local replies "I am the Garda, for here." Me now speechless.

So, we decided to drive. We offered a lift to some of our quiz competitors. In the end we had 14 people in my car. I had the policeman on my lap, another two in the passenger seat, four in the back seat, with several lying flat on top ,and the rest hanging out the hatchback. I drove at 10mph with the sunroof open for front passenger headroom.


to be fair you are not going to be much of a hazard driving at 16 km/h with a cop on your lap 😆

the rave scene was maybe more of a genuine risk as it coincided with the era that young people were just about able to afford relatively faster and more powerful cars, yet the cops had no ANPR equipment and analogue radios (so anyone with a radio scanner could work out where all the trafpol units were..)

@strypey @Wolf480pl

TBH, at the time I was more worried about tearing off my exhaust, as the road surface was a bit uneven.

My point was to illustrate the differing attitudes to drinking and driving, over time and in different places. Attitudes to drink-driving have rightly changed. Too many people have friends & family injured & killed in alcohol fuelled road accidents.

Though as you say 16km/h isn't fast. I also had lots of witnesses. 😃, though possibly not reliable.

@strypey @[email protected]

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