Ever since the Court of Session decision this morning, I see all the Boris supporters are *raging*. One of the favoured suggestions is to re-build Hadrian's Wall to keep out the "Jocks".

Fine, by me. They don't seem to realise that a big chunk of the north of England would then be in Scotland.

Trump supporters = build a wall
Boris supporters = build a wall

I think I see a pattern.

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2022 the UK breaks up.

2023 N Ireland, Scotland and Wales join the EU.

2024 England becomes an unincorporated territory of the USA

2025 Disney buys Cornwall from the crown in order to open a Victorian Theme Park. JRM as CEO

2026 Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and Donald Trump have their first baby together.

2027 Northern England rebels, London fails to notice. Northern Assembly applies to join Scotland.

2028 Scotland allows northerners to join as long as they promise not to be silly

@fitheach @altStuC Also, an independent orange state in N Ireland?!?! The population either wants to be fully Irish or wants to be a funny kind of Scottish. Not sure who would want a N Irish state.

I don't think I've heard calls for an independent N. Ireland. The opposing pulls are for staying British and Irish re-unification. The Brexit debacle is nudging things towards the latter.


For sure, whether or not the UK ends out leaving the EU, it looks like the rise in English chauvinism is pushing a lot of former Unionists to think harder about joining the Republic.

It's also worth thinking about the basis of Unionism among Northern Prods. They're overwhelmingly Scots, and their sense of Britishness has more to do with Scotland than England. If the former becomes independent, that will leave them in a strange position.


@fitheach (I chose the name of the language here intentionally. Their ancestors are mostly from the lowlands and spoke Scots. There's a fair bit of identity in that, as opposed to the Gaelic population of either Ireland or Scotland.) @altStuC

> their sense of Britishness has more to do with Scotland than England.

Mmm, not sure about that. There are a lot of N. Irish with Scottish ancestry, that's true. Their distinctiveness has become defined by their religion (Protestant), and for many it is Calvinist in nature, which is another Scottish historical link. However, nowadays their Britishness and politics is more to do with "Empire" & Brexit.

There is also a football angle, but that is a whole different topic.


I didn't mean to imply that NI Prods are Scottish; they are 100% Irish, and their distinct identity is a mix of language, religion, history ... though I'm pretty sure the two groups in NI are distinguished by caste.

From family, talking to NI Prods, and reading recent history, it really seems that their Britishness has yes to do with Empire. But unlike Commonwealth Britishness, which is rooted in a Grand Englishness, Prods look to Scotland.

@fitheach @tfb frankly I find the whole nationalism thing a bit strange in that automatically creates a “them” and “us”.

As long as the national identity incorporates such. Ideals as openness, inclusiveness and fair play it’s bearable, but otherwise it is one of humanity’s greatest vices.

I've got a feeling humanity is very much disposed to finding differences between people. If it weren't nationalities, it would be something else. A kind of universal Lord of the Flies.


@fitheach It isn’t that we shouldn’t find differences It is that we should celebrate them @tfb

@altStuC @fitheach Nations are a part of human society at our current level of development. As with other features of bourgeois society, it is contradictory, and nationalism has positive and negative sides. National identity as such is perfectly legitimate. Nationalisms aren't all the same; the nationalism of the oppressed is not the same as the nationalism of an oppressor nation.

Which is again different than peoples. There are no good and bad people.

@fitheach nooo I'd have to cross the border on my commute.

Ooh, might be a bit awkward. If I remember correctly there would only be gates at every mile, and they won't be wide enough for two way traffic. Plus, the legionaries would want to do checks, anyway. I hope your Latin is up to scratch.

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