The Senedd (Welsh Assembly) will to-day vote on an amendment to hold an independence referendum, in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

This is a first in Welsh history.

as expected the amendment was defeated. The proposer plus the Plaid Cymru members voted for the amendment.

@fitheach This is huge, though won't go as far as such things may - and almost inevitably will - in Scotland. I lived in North Wales for a few years. For a couple of years I was surrounded by Welsh speakers. Not once did any one of them mention independence even as a distant goal.

I don't know where they were hiding. Welsh independence seems to be quite popular now, and is growing.

I suppose it helps when you see other people(s) doing similar things.

@fitheach Yep, when there is a change, it can come quite quickly. It's been an eventful few years since I was there too, for the whole of the UK. Going back only every eighteen months or so, you can feel it every time.

- 🇬🇧 England: *Votes for Brexit*.
- 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Scotland: Right. Independence Referendum Mk II coming up in 3, 2, 1...
- 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 Wales: Hold my beer.
- 🇪🇺 EU: Where is that bucket of pop-corn when you need it? 🍿
- 🇺🇸 USA: Brexit good! EU Bad!
- Catalonia: How come *they* get to be independent and not me?
- 🇪🇸 Spain: Shut up, Catalonia.
- Catalonia: 😢
- 🌍 Rest of the World: Yo, EU, how about sharing that pop-corn? 🍿
- 🇷🇺 Russia: EU Bad! Brexit good!
- 🇪🇺 Europe: Shut up, Russia.

I think you'll be able to claim a Guinness Book of Records entry for the greatest number of emoji in one post. 😃

@fitheach I'd be very interested in a Scottish perspective on what the hell is going on. What are the LibDems trying to do?? And Labour??? I just don't understand what their endgame plans are, or how their Parliamentary machinations are achieving those ends.

@fitheach sorry! this got lost in losing my job

I know much less about what's going on in Wales, other than they voted overwhelmingly to leave. But I was asking more broadly. For a while, I was convinced that Corbin was angling for PM, but now it's clear that he's trying to GTFO of politics. But what is BoJo angling for, other than "get Brexit done"? Why is Labour opposed to a general election?

I would be very curious about a Scottish perspective, too, with the increasing talk of another vote.

Did you say you lost your job? Sorry to hear that.

Wales voted for Leave by 52.5%, hardly overwhelming.

Labour don't want an election now, because the polls put them around 16 points behind the Conservatives. Corbyn would lose.

Scotland voted 62% to Remain in the EU, we are getting dragged out regardless. The major pro-independence party, the SNP, would likely make substantial gains if there is an election. The SNP could win 50 seats out of a total of 59.

@fitheach ah ok it's the same "mandate" they keep talking about. >_<

I didn't realize that Labour were trailing so badly. But I'm watching the live stream from the House of Commons today, and having just seen a general election losing.

Would you bet on a positive outcome for an independence vote in Scotland? Is it even likely to be brought to a vote again?

(Also, sorry for dumping questions. Feel free to be too busy or not interested in answering! And thank you for answers so far. ^_^ )

If we had a short independence campaign (a few months) then the referendum vote, I am confident we would win this time.

The problem is that an "officially" recognised referendum can only be sanctioned by the government in London. However, as they are aware that they will likely lose it this time, they aren't minded to grant one. As a shorthand this process is called a Section 30.

One way around this obstacle is to fight a general election specifically on independence.

Before you get too excited, votes for the amendment were by the proposer and Plaid Cymru members. No one from the other parties. :blobsad:

@fitheach aye Plaid are still fighting an uphill battle, but they're quickly becoming a major force in Welsh politics. Hell, Leanne Wood almost became First Minister by accident! :')

Have you any idea why Leanne Wood lost the leadership contest? From afar she seemed to have a fairly high profile.

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