Right, that's it. I can't stand it any longer.

To-day, it is mild and wet. Although I was wearing waterproofs, I came back as wet as if I hadn't been wearing any. My Regatta (dog walking) jacket is a boil-in-the-bag.

I'm going to splash-out (sic) on a paclite type jacket for the . I've had a good experience (so far) with my Marmot overtrousers, so, I will see what they have.

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Decision made.

I've bought a Marmot PreCip Eco Pro Jacket. It is the same brand and material as my recently purchased overtrousers. My good experience with the trousers, and an exceptionally good price made the decision easy.

Now to see if it meets my expectations.

Jacket arrived, to-day. Whilst I was out for the .

Seems to be what I expected. Same lightweight material as my Marmot overtrousers. The large size is about right, for me, although I wouldn't get a winter fleece underneath (also as expected). Sleeves have been designed for an orangutan.

One weird thing: the zip mechanism is on the other side (right). Is this a US peculiarity?

Rain is forecasted for the next few days, so, a proper evaluation will be possible.

Not much rain, to-day. The weather forecast was rather pessimistic. The waterproofing test will have to wait.

However, I still wore the jacket because of the forecast. Even though it was warm, there was no trapped sweat, so, breathability seems very good. I'm happy as this was one of my main reasons for buying the jacket.

@fitheach Check the waterproof rating of the new jacket you buy. Also might just need to give your jacket a new waterproofing too? Living in the rain city of Europe (Bergen), rain gear here has to be up to the job. 👍🏻

I've always found Gore-Tex jackets to be both waterproof and breathable. That combination is essential.

I originally bought the Regatta as I wanted something cheap for the 3x daily . However, in hindsight, being constantly sweaty is very undesirable.

@fitheach Totally get that. Luckily we have a dog that is not so keen on rain which makes those walks shorter.

Our main is 90-120 mins. It was raining constantly. Up and down hills, too, so exertions.

@fitheach My husband takes our dog on the main walk each morning in the forest/mountain right where we live. They are usually out about 45 mins uphill and downhill. Whatever the weather they are out.

I'm sorry to hear that. It is always wrenching losing a best friend.

Is short legs and deep snow not a problem?

@fitheach Haha! They manage surprisingly well! Pippin was known to just plough a tunnel and pop up.

, my Aberdeen Terrier, has terrible problems in deep snow. Firstly, because it is hard work for him. Secondly, the wrong type of snow clumps onto his hairy legs. Eventually the clumping prevents him walking at all.

@fitheach Munti has problems with snow clumping around his paws. I have trimmed his paws for the first time so will try and keep the hair reasonably short to stop the clumping too. 👍🏻 Pippin never struggled since his fur was fairly short.

has no such problems. Firstly, she has long legs. Secondly, the fur on her legs are short, so, no clumping. She also loves the snow.

@fitheach I've got a wee Paclite jacket and it's been great so far. Well worth it, given the amount of wandering around we do in Scotland.

Nothing wrong with that. Berghaus is quite popular, so, a Paclite jacket was quite likely to be one of theirs.

@fitheach I have the same problem when cycling to work. If it rains cats and dogs, my waterproof gear ensures that I stay dry from rain. However, due to sweat and water condensation I am as wet as without rain clothes.

I asked in a friendly outdoor store for better clothes and the grey beard to me: "Either your cloth are waterproof or breathable, but not both". I also have GoreTex clothes but never found anything so far that satisfied both aspects in a good quality.

Rain is usually just water, sweat is yucky.

I've had a good experience with my Craghopper's Gore-Tex jacket. However, this is my winter jacket (it has a mesh lining, and is quite warm). This jacket is both waterproof and breathable. Craghopper don't seem to have summer jacket of the type I want.

@fitheach Cycling in the rain in winter usually works for me since it's so cold that I sty mostly dry. The other seasons are usually the ones where I don't stay dry. I tried different (softshell) jackets from Jack Wolfskin, North Face and a no name brand and all are equally bad.

Do you use a wicking base layer? At least, that would keep the sweat off your skin.

@fitheach No, I usually cycle in work outfit. We have showers in the new offices so I might change that habit and go with dedicated cloths.


Gore-Tex seem to have a plethora of different fabrics now.
If packability and weight (hence "paclite) aren't your most important criteria, other versions of Gore-Tex may be more suitable to your needs.

I have a Gore-Tex Active cycling jacket that I don't mind wearing even at temperatures over 20°C because it breathes a lot better than my other Gore-Tex jackets. It's probably less durable and sturdy though.

I already have a winter Gore-Tex (from Craghopper). It is excellent, but, too big and warm for spring/summer use.

Either Active or Paclite would probably do. That decision will be made according to the jacket's design features. For example, this jacket fits the bill, but, the pockets are inappropriately placed:

@fitheach I don't know how much money one needs to 'splash-out' in order to be warm and dry at the same time when out in the rain.
In my experience, if you don't wear rain gear, you are wet and cold. If you do wear gear, you are wet (from sweat) and warm. It's a miserable choice either way.

@gemlog @fitheach Ah, that's where really good raingear comes in! Stuff like gore-tex can breathe without letting any rain in, which really does help a lot in my experience (although my best jacket in that regards is long dead and used some alternative to gore-tex that I think is no longer made, maybe there's even better stuff on the market now though?)

That may work for walking around, but there's a bit of a line I've discovered at work between an outer layer that isn't made of cheap plastic, likely to tear before first coffee and an expensive, breathable shell that will catch and tear before first coffee :-(
If you need to work hard physically in a downpour a bit above 0°C... you will simply be miserable no matter what.

@gemlog @fitheach My experience with quality raingear is generally carrying heavy backpacks up and down mountains for backcountry camping, which I certainly always have felt at the time counts as heavy labour! I freely grant it may not be as much that as your experience though!

Heavy packs are only with dry fertilizer, which we'd never do in the rain.
No, the tears happen from constant kneeling and brushing against sharp sticks from all the brushing and basal pruning that's been done over the years. It's just work.
Performing heavy labour in the rain for pleasure is an activity that never occurred to me! :-)

@gemlog @keithzg
My Gore-Tex jacket made by Craghopper is excellent, both waterproof and breathable. However, it is a winter jacket, too big and warm for spring/summer.

My recently purchased Marmot waterproof overtrousers aren't Gore-Tex, but, are equally waterproof and breathable. They are similar to Paclite. I need a jacket to go with them.

For hard working PPE my friend swears by the kit made by Stihl. He says they are waterproof, breathable and chainsaw protective.

i'll have to look into stihl garb. we tend to destroy our outerwear.
i'll ask around, thanks iain.

I lied - we put fertilizer in the same packs we use for tree planting, which we do in the rain, but fertilizer is heavier.

@fitheach please report back here after a few days with the experience. I am rarely wearing any jacket, and for the few times when it rains and I actually have to, I always suffer a little :/

@fitheach my Marmot winter jacket also has it on the right side. Peculiar. But more importantly it's a good zipper, and I've had it for over 10 years.

"One weird thing: the zip mechanism is on the other side (right). Is this a US peculiarity?"

Sounds like you got sent the woman's jacket?

That was my first thought, too. @fedops has confirmed the same for his Marmot jacket.

@fitheach @mykd yeah and that's most definitely not a women's jacket. 😄

@fedops @fitheach haha, fair enough. I only suggested it as that's the only reason I have ever seen for the zip to be the other way round.

I know that there is a convention that women's clothing have zips the other way around, buttons too. However, I've never understood the logic.


@fitheach @mykd @fedops (Rich) women used to need dressers to fasten their clothes (buttons were generally at the back and hard to get to), men used to fasten their own (at the front so easy to get to), so men’s clothes were designed to be easier to fasten for a right handed person doing it from “inside” the garment, women’s from “outside”.

You'd think in the move from back to front they (manufacturers) could've changed sides, too.

Still doesn't explain what Marmot think they are up to.

@fedops @mykd

@fitheach @fedops @mykd I guess it was just habit: when the buttons moved to the front, seamstresses (both professional and domestic) just kept sewing them the way they always had, and women starting to fasten their own buttons didn’t know it was the “wrong” way around. (And the majority of women, who couldn’t afford a dresser, were just relieved that they could fasten their clothes at the front.)

No idea what’s going on with Marmot, though. It could be as simple as the first product designer was a woman. Is it a good waterproof?

My Marmot overtrousers are certainly waterproof. My jacket is made of the same material, so, should also be waterproof. Although it has rained for the last few days, every dog walk was luckily timed for the intermittent dry spells. Consequently, the jacket hasn't been tested.

@fedops @mykd

@fitheach @fedops @mykd I find the boil-in-the-bag sweat worse than the rain, tbh. If you remember, add me in when you get to try it out in warm rain!

@fitheach @fedops Nice, I'm glad it's working out for you. If it's as humid there as it is here, you've put it through a tough test!

@fitheach I'll be interested to hear how it survives the wind and rain. My NF jacket has been good, but may need replacing sooner than expected.

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