@feld @jacklenox they're not the same for everyone. They at least differ based on location, but may also take into account other criteria. It's what Google thinks you want to see. Mine:

@GidiKroon @jacklenox exactly. Manipulating these results is quite difficult. If those are the popular queries for your area then I see no harm.
@GidiKroon @jacklenox there is an opportunity to attack this head-on. People should not be discriminated against for crimes they've paid restitution for. The records should be closed.

On the other hand, police should have their records fully in the public forever because they are in a position of power.

@feld @GidiKroon I think you're both missing my point. I know these are contextual but they appear to reflect what people have been searching, at least in the UK. That these are the most popular searches show systemic racism in people, not within Google.

@jacklenox @GidiKroon I have actually searched for that before so I had context to participate in a discussion. That doesn't make me racist, but I've contributed to the weighted results.

@feld @GidiKroon When a white newspaper vendor was killed by police in London in 2009, I suspect very few people took to Google to search his name followed by things like "previous convictions", "criminal past", "crime history" and "criminal". This is racism.

@jacklenox @GidiKroon the discussion in the public square is certainly rooted in racism. I suppose the question is what the consensus is on the definition of "systemic racism".

I've always come to understand that "systemic racism" is about governments, institutions, structures, etc. Not about individuals. But perhaps I'm wrong here.
@feld @jacklenox @GidiKroon One thing I've learned over time is that all these pseudoacademic terms are really just expeditious political terms designed to mean whatever those with an agenda want them to mean. They're meant to not have any concrete meanings or explain precise issues because then they lose their power and utility (then, new nebulous terms and concepts must be invented as replacements). I've just accepted that a substantial portion of the academic and sociopolitical sphere is built around an alchemy of problem manifestation, not problem solving. It's profitable. Too many entities exist solely on maintaining careers that seek solutions to problems they created to which no answers are ever intended. It's rampant amongst government contractors too—once the problem is solved or the product is delivered…all the money stops flowing in. There's no incentive for completion or solution—and it's an easier act to maintain when talking about amoebous theoretical difficult-to-even-observe social or cultural "ills" than it is actual, real things.

@feld @GidiKroon True. I guess my feeling is that governments, institutions and structures are simply systems created by people. So if people are racist, then the systems created by the people are racist.

@feld @GidiKroon @jacklenox Individuals make up the systems. Their biases are what make sytem racism enforced. That includes assuming that George Floyd even had a prior record, or that it was relevant at all to his murder.

@jacklenox @feld @GidiKroon I feel like the media seeds this because when something like this happens somebody always is looking up criminal records for a story angle.
@jacklenox @feld @GidiKroon I suspect very few people were told to begin with because of media slant. This is racism.

@jacklenox
@feld @GidiKroon

I'm sorry but, wasn't Floyd allegedly trying to sell fake banknotes? At least that's what I heard. I don't know about this newspaper vendor, was he also killed while allegedly arrested for a felony?

@jacklenox @feld @GidiKroon
I mean, that detail might make some people search those things

@AlexandruBalan @jacklenox @feld Just to be clear: people should not be killed by the police and nothing about their background should matter.

@GidiKroon
@jacklenox @feld
Absolutely, but people are curious. I'm sure that if Floyd was white and there would have been riots for him, the search results would have been the same.

You hear something about counterfeit money and obviously your interest is piqued. I find nothing wrong with having all the information that you need about a case. I doubt most people searched that in order to make a case for Floyd's death. Everyone is on the same page about this tragedy.

@jacklenox

What if these are popular terms because there are rumors about George Floyd's criminal history (which there are) and people are searching to find more info about the subject from credible sources? Not everything in the world is malicious.

@feld @GidiKroon

@abortretryfail
It's open to interpretation, and I understand why you would want to come to that conclusion. But I'm afraid I think you're wrong. I would point to the examples of some people in more "progressive" countries who aren't seeing this sort of thing.
@feld @GidiKroon

@jacklenox @feld @GidiKroon

If you know that this is contextual, by google. Why do you belief it? This and everyones Media Feed in social media is your individual designed News paper you got for free.

If this here would be Twitter, and you get 100 Answers to you Post. Twitter could be ranked to page 23 or 42, to hide it form you.

@christal
I don't use Google, these are the results I see when I use it anonymously in the UK. A friend in another part of the UK sees the same.
@feld @GidiKroon

@jacklenox
It's not only based on location, but browsing habits as well. Google's suggestions and results are tailored specifically for you, albeit with a huge margin for error.
@feld @GidiKroon

@tuneintodetuned
As I've explained elsewhere, I don't use Google and wasn't logged in when I did this. This is the result of an anonymous search and friends elsewhere in the UK have confirmed that they see the same.
@feld @GidiKroon

@jacklenox
Do you block cookies and most tracking too?
Anyway, that would prove if anything that people around your location want to know the background of a martyr. We'd want that to be the case of any movement - people getting informed before reacting too early and possibly joining hate groups. Each person's motives for doing that or not are varied. Extending prejudice about it based on a single Google search is counterproductive and won't help the much needed dialogue.
@feld @GidiKroon

@feld @GidiKroon @jacklenox An occupational agreement is good in theory, but you know how much shit :glowinthedark: release to the public without consequence. They admit to atrocities all the time and no one does anything about it because they have shiny pins.

@feld @GidiKroon @jacklenox they're not.

That's via a protonvpn exit on a firefox browser with basically no history. (It's kindah two-faced when it would serve people with other browser histories different things)

@jasper @GidiKroon @jacklenox those results are clearly localized to some extent. There's no way you're going to get "crimineel" in the USA.

Either way, what would it even matter? If it's a popular search, it's a popular search. What do you want them to do about it? Hire an army of humans to censor search autocompletes? This is a much harder problem to solve than requiring some humans to check the current top 10 trending hashtags.

@feld @GidiKroon @jacklenox oh yeah it exits in the netherland, my point is that it two of the top suggestions are about looking into the history of the victim. (presumably without regard that it's not relevant to his murder)

@feld @jasper @GidiKroon I don't think Google should censor this by the way. I'm just depressed to have it confirmed that – at least here in the UK – I'm surrounded by racists.

@jacklenox @jasper @GidiKroon unfortunately they're everywhere. People look for a reason to not have to care so they won't be uncomfortable. They love the idea that the system is working. The opposite is terrifying

@feld @GidiKroon @jacklenox imho this is a .. too soft view on it. Neo-nazis etc definitely want to actively push it. Some wealthy elites are fine with pushing it too. People actively write the articles for this, and actively SEO these sites and articles.

@jacklenox @feld @jasper @GidiKroon that is a pretty heavy charge you are throwing out there and seems kind of like you are doing the same thing that you are accusing others of, no? Making broad and sweeping assumptions of someone's intent based on your view of the situation, no?

@ipofanes @GidiKroon @feld @jacklenox 😅 it doesn't change the fact that the results are different

@GidiKroon They indeed differ quite a bit.

(translating suggestions for non-Dutch people):
- george floyd (past search)
- george floyd video
- george floyd criminal record
- george floyd story
- george floyd what did he do
- george floyd criminal
- george floyd wiki
- george floyd agent
- george floyd death
- george floyd challenge

@GidiKroon
Yup, and me (french).

- george floyd
- " " video
- " " story
- " " criminal record
- " " actor
- " " police
- " " arrest video
- " " police officer
- " " video of his death
- " " arrest

@feld @jacklenox

@kaffeeringe Haha, thank you. As it happens I am already a DuckDuckGo user. A friend pointed this out to me so I tested it in Google anonymously.

@jacklenox
Is it not true that in America, your life history and credibility is in full display before a judge & jury when in trial? I think people simply want to know. Even I want to know of his past as he’s made into some kind of martyr. He didn’t need to die. That was reckless excessive force.

@lo That these are the most popular searches from where I'm searching here in the UK stinks of racism to me. I suspect very few people made similar searches to this when a white newspaper vendor was killed by police in London in 2009.

@jacklenox
Unfortunately, racism is often in full display in the UK. I've seen it at football matches & it's disgusting. I'm Swiss. I can’t begin to deny it exists in our homogeneous society.

I suppose the best we can do as inherently imperfect humans is to do better. Beginning with ourselves.

@jacklenox pic description: a google page in which is written "george floyd" and which autocomplete with a list of search related to how bad he could have been like "previous convictions", "criminal past", "crime history", etc.

@darckcrystale Thank you, I almost always add captions and totally forgot on this occasion. My apologies. This toot has been far more popular than I anticipated so I'd rather not delete and redraft it now.

@jacklenox I got this from new Hamburg, Germany.
Pretty good ones, at least.
But yes it's biased on location and your profile at Google/Alphabet.

@alsternerd Yes, alas it's not news to me to learn that I'm surrounded by racists here in the UK!

@jacklenox At some point ProtonMail complained about disappearing from Google search results.
Generally, yeah, HEY HI is very convenient to explain anything.

@maloki Argh, I almost always add captions and totally forgot on this occasion. Apologies. It's a Google search showing the autocomplete options after typing "george floyd". The top ones are, "previous convictions", "criminal past", "crime history" and "criminal". Caveat: I carried out this search using Google anonymously in Carlisle in the UK.

@jacklenox , Saw this and had to try it myself to see if sim results... And yes, I also got a bunch of suggestions, slightly different from yours, for negative, racist search queries for George Floyd, and none addressing the big, pertinent, topic of importance. And that's a travesty.

@jacklenox I see police violence, autopsy and obituary. The former once in English and once in German. I still wonder how Google decides what people should see. Not that it matters to me, though; I have been consistently using DuckDuckGo for years.

@jacklenox You know, when that Autozone smasher cop alerted the horde to destroy black-owned businesses.
@jacklenox There's no such thing as "systemic racism". Racism is an individual behavior, and yes, given the amount of deceptively edited videos of police confrontations of the last years ( Trevor Martin, Rodney King, etc ) and ridiculous media spin , having an amount of healthy skepticism is advisable. When media does propaganda and activism instead of presenting the information for you to decide, you want to know when the media is lying to you and how.
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