@nuclear I hope you realize that these platforms cannot continue to function if everyone stops paying for them?

@unfa Google is literally the richest company on Earth. If I could contribute to their downfall that would be very good.

@nuclear Yeah, but I don't think it'd be a net good thing for humanity if the largest repository of video content on the planet went down. Regardless of how I feel about Google and their many misconducts.

@nuclear Unless we can migrate all the content for the future generations somewhere else. And as you can see by how PeerTube is doing, we're not capable of that, because hosting video is freaking expansive. I've had 2 PeerTube instances die on my, taking all the content I've put there offline permanently. We don't have anything better to propose, and destroying what we have now without providing a *suitable* replacement is what I would consider to be a really stupid thing to do.

@nuclear Companies like Google are bad, but destroying them (even if we could do that) without giving humanity something better would hurt a lot of people. I think it's important to consider how much good happens thanks to services like YouTube (people learning crafts to earn a living, others developing their passions). Lots of good people earing their living by creating content there. Think about this as well, not just about how much you hate Google as a company.

@unfa @nuclear If something could bring down proprietary platforms, that would be ad blockers. Ad blockers have long been popular, but 95% of users still don't use them. Yes, ads fund web creators and artists, but their pervasive nature also hurts users' fundamental freedoms. I would personally like to see alternative revenue models that respect users. Just like streaming killed the CD and vinyl industries, we should investigate trends towards the elimination of the (pervasive) ad industry.

@panosalevropoulos @unfa @nuclear One of the main issues with ads seems to be the “personalized” aspect, which demands maximum tracking capabilities. The “ethical ads” I’ve seen just rely on old school categorical marketing (e.g. tech ads go on tech websites), which could be a good alternative (but not equivalent).

And, Unfa, you make a really good point about suitable alternatives, which makes me wonder why more people aren’t pursuing the development of them more aggressively. But, I feel the “hurting content creators” argument is just a few steps of legitimacy above making the same case for Twitch or OnlyFans suddenly disappearing. Yes, we should be considering these things as much as possible or reasonable, but I don’t think this catastrophe is a fear that should halt attempts to dismantle these entities.

@Calvin @unfa @nuclear The amazing thing about libre platforms is that we finally have competitive alternatives in practice. For years people who disagreed with the system could only preach; they couldn't provide anything relatively close to what proprietary services offered. Things have changed, it's important to continue this dynamic towards open technologies.

We are not there yet, but we are going full speed and the recent developments have been great. Let's not encourage anyone to stop now.

@panosalevropoulos @unfa @nuclear Fully agree. My prompt was mainly because I feel that the momentum could be so much more (in practice) than it currently is. Also, these federated microblogging platforms are a great example of what you were saying. (Posting screenshot of my post instead of linking, because I remembered the thread was quite large and a bit heated).

@Calvin @unfa @nuclear I think the current pace is okay. Don't forget that our expectations are high because we expect alternatives to be as good as established proprietary services.

It's harder to create a decentralized service that works. Apart from the lack of resources (and time, if the developer has another job), Fediverse projects often need to reinvent the wheel to make some mechanisms work in intercommunicated instances. We take some features for granted, but they are hard to implement.

@panosalevropoulos @Calvin @nuclear Oh, I do want services like PeerTube to become suitable replacements for YouTube. The lack of features is one thing, the reliability of the service and federation itself is another. We'll need to fund the open infrastructure to have a reliable alternative that won't go away permanently taking down hundreds of hours of video content because of one person being unable to sustain the service.
I've had this happen to me twice already. It is a problem.

@unfa @panosalevropoulos @nuclear Self-hosting will always be a good solution, but it shouldn’t be the only one. Some options may always be objectively good, but not always (as you said) suitable or best for someone’s situation or needs (and, of course, their desires or preferences and comfort levels). I shy away from blockchain stuff, because every time I’ve heard anything about it, I get little red flags being raised in the back of my head. But, you’re right that we need some kind of redundancy for larger services, at least. :/

@unfa @nuclear “I hope you realize that these platforms cannot continue to function if everyone stops paying for them?”

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