Our room is invite only, and the Discord server is treated as the "default" place to chat, with Matrix slowly being deprecated (while still bridged).

Matrix has an enormous problem with spam and abuse, and is not equipped, at all, to deal with it. One dedicated person is all it takes to kill your community. Federation is an anti-feature that makes spammers' lives easier.

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And you could also try centralised self-hosted solutions, like Revolt (or was it Rocket?)

@Hyolobrika @nuclear something something "the banhammer needs coordination and is thus often not fast enough or completely ineffective"?

I do agree that, even within the homeserver, Matrix's moderation capabilities are a little on the weak side...

@nuclear nah that's not true at all. You can spam the shit out of discord as well. In fact there's much bigger community of discord spammers than matrix just because of volume.

Using notoriously proprietary Discord for Foss is hilarious to say the least.

@Wraptile I haven't had any problems with spammers with more than a 1000 users on Discord. On Matrix, the server is paralyzed because of a single determined guy at a fraction of that. There are no bans, it's always just a matter of finding a new public instance. Discord has much better tools to combat this.

@nuclear do you think matrix is lacking some admin tools? I'm sure there are plenty of anti spam moderator bots.

Your argument that matrix accounts are free doesn't hold because discord accounts are free too. In fact there's a vibrant market of discord accounts which are dime a dozen so discord actually had an active spam market.

@Wraptile I didn't have any problem with spammers on Discord. I had a huge one on Matrix due to just 1 guy. On Matrix, you can always find a new instance with public signups to spam from. No such thing on Discord.

There are no viable moderation bots on Matrix. There are dozens free moderation bots on Discord, and it also has many built in tools. There are almost no user management tools on Matrix. Discord offers granular role controls.

@nuclear I'm still confused how multiple instances come to play here. I can make 100 accounts on discord the same way I can make on matrix.

@nuclear I am can ban/mute any accounts on Matrix...I've been using it alongside millions, for years. We even have a matrix server. All works good.

@[email protected] Discord's main advantage in abuse control is that one can demand phone number verification. Phone numbers cost money, effectively setting a price for creating a new account. That is a deterrent.

On Matrix, we set up a bot that awards low power levels based on tenure in a room - so if there is a troll attack, we set power level to speak to a nonzero value temporarily. Basically works like IRC's +v and +m. That together with banning and redacting seems rather effective. And I like how on Matrix one cannot send PMs without the other side accepting first.

@divVerent But I do not understand where the issue is? Say someone is a spam bot or a troll, can the account be banned easily? Why would that "destroy" a matrix server?

@[email protected] Just banning an account does nothing - the troll will just create a new one - so always report to their home server admin so they at least block their email. If that gets too annoying, they will run their own home server. Which you can ban, they get a new DNS name, etc.

That is why as a final level of defense we use tenure. Up to now we haven't needed it yet, no troll was determined enough to run their own server yet.

@divVerent I understand yest. However I think it must be hella-rare to have someone so determined that they make so many accounts to spam a matrix room. I do think that there should be an easy way to ping the server admin and report accounts.

@[email protected] Discord has abuse issues too - it just takes one determined troll to shut down a long standing member's account. Who happened to be the Discord's owner at the time. No way to appeal that, Discord support wouldn't budge - but at least I could get them to transfer ownership to myself and then handed it to the project owner. Who, of course, is frequently targeted as well for being... unusual in some of way.

So, yeah, abuse vectors are everywhere.

@divVerent If it does it's orders of magnitude harder and rarer than on Matrix. False equivalence.

@[email protected] And yet what I described about Discord has already happened to the DarkPlaces engine project twice, while we only ever had ONE spammer/troll even on IRC.

(Doesn't help that one of the engine developers is trans, and the other is hated by furries)

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