> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.

- Is better than recycling
- Saves you money
- Teaches engineering
- Saves the planet

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@orbifx "Fixing things is often free" venant d'un site qui vend les outils de rΓ©paration, il fallait l'oser :)
A part Γ§a, je suis bien d'accord avec eux.

@orbifx There finally is ethical consumption under capitalism

@orbifx Counterpoint: owning things is bad, and so is having to learn all the skills needed to run a technological civilisation for yourself. Fix things for other people if you enjoy it. If you don’t, then find another skill and offer that.

@orbifx REMEMBER: it goes Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. in that order. recycle is the least ideal while still being acceptable.
@orbifx But what if the new thing is faster, bigger and last but not least, shiny?

@orbifx Say what you will about USSR, but back then in Russia all electronics came with schematics as a part of usual paperwork, exactly to make repair easier.

@ronane is not a machine, we shouldn't apply mechanistic thinking to it, but I get your point.

Democracies are in dire need just now, but it might just be part of their nature to move between instabilities to find new norms.

@orbifx still, maybe it's better that nobody "own" democracy ^^

@LPS regulation here would be nice, but kinda hard to implement. As far as ideals go, I prefer aiming for people's awakened thinking.

@orbifx I'm not quite so optimistic ... I think most people operate on a more instinctual level and behaviour changes due to external factors. Basically if it's cold you put on a coat, too warm take it off. By passing local bylaws that prohibit the use of or taxing single use products, businesses will simply go the next available/cheaper option. Which if you do it right would be reusables or recycled products.

But entropy causes chaos and one must have chaos still to give birth to a dancing star :blobcat:

Well, basically it's only a matter of money.

If you send the device in, it can normally always be repaired

@Vamp898 not it's not about that. The point is about _most_ users, maybe not always everyone, being able to repair it themselves and for the repair to be cost effective.

Well yes and no. It can be a security risk if you, for example, replace the battery yourself, especially when you use a cheap 3rd party battery (and its hard to get official ones).

Also the technology is getting more and more complex, for example its almost impossible to repair an Xperia without destroying the water sealing. And thats not because Sony hates you, its just because it is a complex thing.

Things becoming more complex is part of the problem, and it's not entirely unintentional.

If you want to create an high end waterproof smartphone that's 5mm thick, it will result in an extremely complex design, there is no way around that.

Not creating a high-end waterproof smartphone 5 mm thick is one way around it. πŸ˜€

But why not? It's very useful. You can't just not invent something because it would be to complex to repair it at home. That way, most things would not exist

I'm just saying there's a tradeoff between low complexity and high functionality, and for a long time now, nobody has given thought to the low complexity factor and we are constantly adding features which may or may not be genuinely useful and productive, without weighing their value against the complexity they introduce.

Being able to repair it has value in itself, and it's underappreciated.
For the concrete example, a high-end waterproof thin phone is probably useful, but it's worth considering whether you personally are going to make much use of those features, and what it's worth it to you that the shop around the corner can repair it, or that you can replace its battery.

Because most people can't do it. No matter how easy it might be, most people just are not capable in doing so.

I'd say that at least 90% can not replace an Harddisk in an simple, standard desktop tower.

So they do not care how easy it is to repair, they can't do it anyway.

I can replace synchros in transmissions, changing breaks is something I do with eye closed.

The majority of people don't even know how to check the oil level.

Do you think free software makes sense? Or is that also a case of nobody will look at the source code anyway, you can't fix the products you use, and just go buy something proprietary instead, it's probably better and cheaper in the end?

Richard Stallman himself clearly draws a line between software and hardware, as Linus Torvalds do.

You can't just built you own smartphone in your garage, but you can build an kernel in your garage.

Do you think it will ever be possible to repair broken CPUs? Or that CPUs should be simple (slow) enough that people can repair it.

Do you think nature cares if you can do an bypass on your heart by yourself?

But you can freely build your mind, as you can freely build software

If you are not a trained, certified, expert in that field, a self repair can go horribly wrong up to the part where someone gets hurt.

That doesn't mean that some very easy/simple things, especially in Apple products, are made in a way you can't repair it, but if you are not an expert, you should not really repair it.

That doesn't imply that you don't really own it just because you can't repair it.

That's just plain impossible. Fairphone tried that and failed, others tried that and failed. It's not that simple.

Then the question becomes, send it in to whom? An accredited workshop involved in a cartel to keep prices up, or your local independent shop?

When my phone broke, I sent it to Sony. It came back almost as new with new warranty and everything and the repair was way cheaper than the price of the phone

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