@wolf480pl @yogthos No cities would mean a return to early agrarian or pre-agrarian society. Throughout human history, cities were where people came together and progress happened. It's possible that with the rise in working from home, a lot of work can move out of cities, but we still need a lot of stuff that needs to be manufactured, which means cities.

I want better cities.

@mcv @yogthos kinda, buy that depends on what you mean by cities.

The kind of city city-fans like - walkable, dense, with tall buildings, and focus on trains and bikes as opposed to cars - doesn't have much space for factories and the trucks that bring cargo to and from them.

I live in a village by a major road. On the other side of the road there is a cluster of factories. Half of the village works there, together with ppl from other nearby villages.

@wolf480pl @mcv @yogthos

Goods coming in and out by truck, not rail? Where I live in the USA, all the older factories have rail spurs that run to them. In many cases these are now abandoned, and everything goes by truck. So we have giant warehouses lining the motorways, and giant traffic jams to go with them. That is a choice that can be reversed.

Real-world dense, walkable cities generally have industrial districts folded into them.

@publius @mcv @yogthos
Here in my end of Poland, most factories that had railways connected to them went bankrupt a decade ago or more.

I once asked a railfan why nobody here transports goods by rail anymore, and the only answer I got was "it's complicated, there's a whole book written on it". Anyway I imagine arranging a time window for a cargo train is more complocated and less flexible than just hiring a truck. Kinda like TCP/IP vs OSI stack.

@wolf480pl @mcv @yogthos

To an extent that's so, but the bigger problem is simply that truckers don't have to pay to maintain the roads, even though it's well known that they cause very high maintenance-of-way costs.

Railroads have much lower fuel & labour costs, but large capital & upkeep charges. So under profit pressure, they tend to under-invest, degrading on-time performance. Friends of mine see this in action across from their house every day, on a formerly double-track main line.

@michcio @yogthos well that'd be villages built around horses-as-default

@[email protected] @[email protected] i had a trippy dream once when i was sick in which my village (population about 4000) had two tram lines

@michcio @yogthos your village has street names so it's vorderline town anyway

@[email protected] @[email protected] i previously lived two villages over (population ~700) and that place could use having more transport than one school bus a day

@michcio @yogthos certainly. I still think horses would be hugely beneficial even with more buses.

@wolf480pl @michcio @yogthos

If you're OK with the high levels of disease that come with having horses and horse shit in your town, maybe?

@michcio @wolf480pl @yogthos

What do you mean "dream"? Eureka Springs, Arkansas, in the Ozark Mountains, had an electric street railway in 1905, and its population wasn't more than a couple of thousand. In fact at that time there was a project in the works to connect it with a nearby town, which was only practicable at all because electrics can handle very severe grades.

@publius @michcio @yogthos last time I checked his village was not in the Ozark Mountains, or, for that matter, any other mountains.

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