Problems we are having with #Signal:
* It is and will remain centralized (clear strategy of *not* federating servers)
* It requires strong identifiers/selectors (phone#) to use
* Author disallows distribution by anyone but Google, although free/libre
* It keeps pushing away verification of fingerprint in interface
* It relies on Google+Amazon infrastructure
* Its funding is shady (OTF = Radio Free Asia = USG)

= clearly unethical choices, unjustifiable by accessibility or technological reasons.

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@jz Other issues with :

* code quality is marginal - endless parade of small bugs, especially with the desktop client
* moxie is a jerk on github a little too frequently
* moxie is hostile to people running LineageOS

@jz That being said, I finally have the vast majority of my contacts including many non-technical people using a secure messenger for the first time in history. Change will be slow and many of the alternatives are not currently viable for non-technical users, partly due to usability and partly due to the network effect of "I'm not installing yet another app that runs yet another service just to talk to one person."

@deutrino @jz From my own personal interactions with Moxinspike on github and initial attempt to publish Signal on FDroid all I can say is that they clearly don't understand what GPLv3 entails or else they would have used a proprietary licensing scheme of some sort. They do not care in the slightest about the principles of free software and that manifests itself in how they address developers who would like to use Signal on platforms which are not compromised by Google's screen-reader in the gapps package.

It is almost like the situation with Palemoon but I am certain that if Moxinspike could do it over again they would have never released enough source code to fork the client at all.

@thufir

@deutrino @jz

OK thx for information.

I use it with lineageos,

is there another tool like signal ?

@drixse @jz @deutrino There are several other options but they are all flawed in ways such as usability and limited popularity. Tor messenger is not mobile yet, Matrix is plagued by latency issues and poorly implemented trust systems for encryption, XMPP is just bad for normal everyday people and the clients suck, there is LibreSignal and Chatsecure which are derivative of Signal but have tedious support. Matrix (the main app for it is called Riot) has the most promise as of now.

@thufir Great info, thanks. This is pretty much telling me that Signal is still the least worst option, especially for normies. I'll be happy when something less problematic finally beats it in terms of usability.
@drixse @jz

@deutrino @jz @drixse Yeah. It might take a while but I am hoping for something workable sooner rather than later. Matrix would be great now if people were willing to run the colossal homeservers, but the matrix community are slowly getting to a point where they won't use as much resources.

Anyways how did you favorite my toot twice?

@thufir @drixse @jz @deutrino Well, the clients Conversations (for Android) and Gajim (for desktop) work perfectly with XMPP, at least for me. Although I recognize that Riot has more functionalities and it's more beautiful

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